Practicum Report #3 (Joel) - Snow Make-Up
Interview with Pete Yoshonis on Spiritual Formation in the Church
Joel Yoshonis: What is spiritual formation to you? / Define spiritual formation.
Pete Yoshonis: Spiritual formation is 2 Pet. 3:18—growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in his likeness and who he is. It’s becoming like the rabbi.
JY: What are a few good methods you use or are familiar with for spiritual formation?
PY: The personal disciplines are a piece of that because they are part of cultivating that relationship [with Jesus]; growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ. If it’s true that we’re transformed as we renew our minds then we have to do things to cultivate our thinking and our knowledge of him. So, I think there are the personal disciplines—praying, fasting, etc.—that are a part of spiritual formation but I also think that has to play out in a community. Communal formation challenges our thinking about Christ and encourages action. I may draw a conclusion about Jesus but if you and I talk about it you’ll help refine that thought. If I say “I’m learning these things” but not living it you’re here to say “you’re not living it out.” Works are an outgrowth of faith so, if we have faith, there should be an outcome of works. If I’m growing in Christ and being spiritually formed it should be seen in my behavior and character.
JY: Do you think we see true spiritual formation/outgrowth of works in the Church today?
PY: I do see it in places. Just this week I had a guy call me who wouldn’t normally share his faith or be openly bold about it. In the past week he had been in the hospital and while he was walking through, heard a woman crying. He stopped by and asked her what was wrong and found that her mom had just died. After hearing this, he took the time to sit and listen to her and pray with her. That is spiritual formation.
One of the reasons we don’t catch it more is because we’re not aware of what it looks like. I think we equate spiritual formation with knowing your Bible, not drinking, not smoking, things like that. We equate spiritual life with the absence of bad things rather than the presence of good things. I don’t know we know what we’re looking for.
Another reason is that we equate spirituality with things that help with the organized church. For example, if you serve in children’s ministry regularly I may think you’re spiritually formed. Just because you serve a lot doesn’t mean you’re spiritually formed. I think probably we’re looking at the wrong benchmarks for spiritual formation.
JY: What are some of the barriers to seeing spiritual formation occur? If we were truly being spiritually formed we ought to look different than the world. Why isn’t the church different from the world?
PY: In a church on any given Sunday we have a huge cross section of people. Spiritual formation, getting people on the journey, may look different [for different people]. There’s such a diversity of where people are and their level of interest in spirituality. They go to church one hour a week and that is their “spiritual formation.” It may be for a social reason, but nothing a part of their week. We think Sunday morning is what makes the growth but it needs to be a part of their week, a part of their lives. We bank on that hour as if they watch a TV show and have it change their lives. Most people will spend more time this week watching a two-hour TV program than being spiritually formed.
JY: What can we do to fix this/change this?
PY: The first thing is that we need to build the foundation of prayer for it. I don’t build myself up and think that I can “change the world” on my own from something I do. I need to look at the closest relationships around me and see that it’s changing there first rather than jump the gun and make a big assumption that I’m going to have a huge impact on the church to do it. Look at our plan that that promotes personal responsibility with community involvement. It needs to be individual and communal – whatever plan we have. It needs to be a bigger commitment in the Church. Churches don’t make enough of an overall plan. They focus on “what can we do in the next six months” not “what can I do in the next five years.” I think we’re too shortsighted. We live in a culture that believes if you pass on information it will change you and they don’t understand transformation. It’s becoming like your teacher not just learning from them.
Joel Yoshonis: What is spiritual formation to you? / Define spiritual formation.
Pete Yoshonis: Spiritual formation is 2 Pet. 3:18—growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in his likeness and who he is. It’s becoming like the rabbi.
JY: What are a few good methods you use or are familiar with for spiritual formation?
PY: The personal disciplines are a piece of that because they are part of cultivating that relationship [with Jesus]; growing in the knowledge and grace of Christ. If it’s true that we’re transformed as we renew our minds then we have to do things to cultivate our thinking and our knowledge of him. So, I think there are the personal disciplines—praying, fasting, etc.—that are a part of spiritual formation but I also think that has to play out in a community. Communal formation challenges our thinking about Christ and encourages action. I may draw a conclusion about Jesus but if you and I talk about it you’ll help refine that thought. If I say “I’m learning these things” but not living it you’re here to say “you’re not living it out.” Works are an outgrowth of faith so, if we have faith, there should be an outcome of works. If I’m growing in Christ and being spiritually formed it should be seen in my behavior and character.
JY: Do you think we see true spiritual formation/outgrowth of works in the Church today?
PY: I do see it in places. Just this week I had a guy call me who wouldn’t normally share his faith or be openly bold about it. In the past week he had been in the hospital and while he was walking through, heard a woman crying. He stopped by and asked her what was wrong and found that her mom had just died. After hearing this, he took the time to sit and listen to her and pray with her. That is spiritual formation.
One of the reasons we don’t catch it more is because we’re not aware of what it looks like. I think we equate spiritual formation with knowing your Bible, not drinking, not smoking, things like that. We equate spiritual life with the absence of bad things rather than the presence of good things. I don’t know we know what we’re looking for.
Another reason is that we equate spirituality with things that help with the organized church. For example, if you serve in children’s ministry regularly I may think you’re spiritually formed. Just because you serve a lot doesn’t mean you’re spiritually formed. I think probably we’re looking at the wrong benchmarks for spiritual formation.
JY: What are some of the barriers to seeing spiritual formation occur? If we were truly being spiritually formed we ought to look different than the world. Why isn’t the church different from the world?
PY: In a church on any given Sunday we have a huge cross section of people. Spiritual formation, getting people on the journey, may look different [for different people]. There’s such a diversity of where people are and their level of interest in spirituality. They go to church one hour a week and that is their “spiritual formation.” It may be for a social reason, but nothing a part of their week. We think Sunday morning is what makes the growth but it needs to be a part of their week, a part of their lives. We bank on that hour as if they watch a TV show and have it change their lives. Most people will spend more time this week watching a two-hour TV program than being spiritually formed.
JY: What can we do to fix this/change this?
PY: The first thing is that we need to build the foundation of prayer for it. I don’t build myself up and think that I can “change the world” on my own from something I do. I need to look at the closest relationships around me and see that it’s changing there first rather than jump the gun and make a big assumption that I’m going to have a huge impact on the church to do it. Look at our plan that that promotes personal responsibility with community involvement. It needs to be individual and communal – whatever plan we have. It needs to be a bigger commitment in the Church. Churches don’t make enough of an overall plan. They focus on “what can we do in the next six months” not “what can I do in the next five years.” I think we’re too shortsighted. We live in a culture that believes if you pass on information it will change you and they don’t understand transformation. It’s becoming like your teacher not just learning from them.
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